Not too many of them about Chris, well done, Dave

Hi Chris, this is a great find!

You may like my article on my favourite Guy Van:

http://dtcawebsite.org/dinkyarticles/36-large-commercials/98-golden-slum...

Kind regards, Jan

Well done - a nice example, and it must feel great to get this elusive item after so long!

I was pleased to add a Dinky Guy van to my collection at the weekend. It actually looks very smart in the hand, but unfortunately the photograph highlights all the blemishes!

Nice additions!
For the Weetabix the equal mix of ridged en grooved hubs appearances is familiar.
For the Slumberland the grooved hubs version is the much scarcer one.
I believe that the grooved hubs Lyons is very scarce. This b/w pictures is from Model Collector of February 1994, page 50.

Kind regards, Jan

With the addition of the Guy Van below I now have a full set of 6.

From the first to this one was probably 15 years.

You have to be patient in this hobby.

Dave

Thanks Chris

The only one I had as a child was the Spratts Van and my 14c Coventry Climax Fork Lift put so many loads into the back of that vehicle.

The one shown above is the first Guy van I bought when I started collecting.

Interestingly the Spratts and the Weetabix vans are both sitting on exactly the same box!!! The Spratts was introduced immediately after the Weetabix van had been discontinued and Meccano must have had some left over Weetabix boxes and put another label over the top to use the stock of boxes - they never wasted anything!!!

It took me over an hour to soak off the Spratts label which then left me with a mint Weetabix one as it had never been out of the factory. I have since bought another Spratts box to replace the one you see above.

Dave

Hi Dave, congratulations on this very special collecting milestone! And such a remarkable box-story! How did you discover that there was another label underneath and how were you so sure that it was a Weetabix-label down there, before starting to soak it off from such a pristine box?
By the way, it took you fifteen years to get the six of them, but my patience is challenged much more: it took me the double number of years to find and afford two of those! I will have to grow very old to acquire all of them ...

The more hardship to find them, the more satisfaction, as we will all agree no doubt! Kind regards, Jan

Hi Jan

If you look in the January 2012 issue of the DTCA Journal on Pages 16 and 17 you will see that we were originally alerted to this situation by DTCA member Adrian Nash from Australia.

I detail the whole proces with a number of photographs.

I am sure there will be more examples out there.

Dave

Chris--Nice find and you have a nice collection of those not so common variations, with the Supertoy wheels. All of my early Guy vans have the earlier, ridged wheels and the straight door handles on the back. But either way, a very nice and wonderful Dinky Toys set to collect.
I do have a related question: when I purchased my Spratts van many years ago, I bought it from a well known English toy vendor. When I got it, I looked it over carefully, and noticed that it appeared that the bottom edge of the lower red border on the van body had been brushed over, with exactly matching paint. It is that way all around the body of the van, and was definitely done with a brush. I was concerned that it was re-painted, and asked the vendor about it. Their reply, after checking, was that somehow many of those Spratt's vans had that area either re-touched or re-painted. It almost looks like originally the red color did not go all the way to the bottom of the van box, and a decision was made to extend the color all the way to the bottom. Have any of you ever heard of this before? I have never heard any mention of it anywhere, so I have always been suspicious. The vendor I bought it from was "Burnett Diecast", and I understand they have not been in business for many years, but that they were very reputable, as least at the time. They had an extensive list of hard to find Dinky's in very good condition, so I tended to trust them.
Terry

Terry, I have no Spratts Van to compare.
What I do know is that Bob Burnett tends to know what he is talking about, and that he is still in business, see below.

From left to right: me, Dave, Bob, selling Dinky Toys. Regards, Jan

Jan--Thanks for the reply....do you have any contact info for Bob, such as an e-mail or an online business address? I seemed to remember reading somewhere that the former business, Burnett Diecast, was dissolved or just quit, and I have not heard anything more about him selling Dinky's. I just found a post that mentioned him and it said that they took down the Burnett Diecast site in 2010. He was in that with Roger Poulet.

On the Dinky Guy van Spratts: the area I am talking about is at the very bottom of the van body...the thick red striped or painted area. There is another, thinner red stripe right below the word "Spratts" that also runs around the body. It kind of appears that the lower painted area was originally the same thickness as the upper one, and then after the model was complete, they decided the extend the painted area to the bottom of the van body. Looking at it closely, the brush marks do no extend to the top of that lower area, but go up and leave a spray painted area about the same size as the upper band. I am quite positive that this was not painted by a subsequent owner.....the brushed in area is consistent all the way around the model, and not just in a few areas, such as a scratch might need. And the color is a perfect, dead on match for the sprayed area.
Would sure appreciate any of the other members who have this model looking at it and reporting back. Otherwise, this model is in very good condition...not mint, but very nice. Below is a closeup photo that shows this brushed in area.

Terry

Looks like - and is well-explicable to be - a factory correction, but I have never seen such a major one. Only with model in hand the judgement can be more affirmative. No, sorry, I do not have Bob's contact data. Regards, Jan

Jan--Thanks again for your always valued comments. What it looks like to me, is that it originally had the bottom area painted just like the upper stripe..in other words, a thin, narrow stripe below the lettering, and then the cream color below it. If you look very closely, they only painted by brush the lower area of that stripe and then continued it down to the bottom.
Hopefully Dave or Jacque, or some other member will offer a comment. Maybe I should start a new thread for this so it gets noticed. I will give it another day and see. But it is something that I have wanted to address for some time. It could also be that mine was never painted quite right to begin with, and that the lower part was not covered completely.............By the way, did you hear that Jim Noble has resigned as a moderator on Planet Diecast?
Terry

I fully agree with Terry on this, it is not something I had noticed before but mine is exactly the same, please see photo below:

I have this image in my computer at a very high resolution - I hope the 640 pixel max. width restriction on this site allows the effect to be seen properly.

I have a colleague about 25 miles away from me who also owns a Spratts Van and I will try to check his out early next week.

Dave

Dave--Great closeup picture of the area. And you can clearly see that there is a line under the brushed area, I think showing that the original stripe was like the top one....very narrow.
So the questions likely is, why the change, and did it affect all of the Spratt's vans? And did some come out without the extended paint area, with the narrow stripe? Surely Meccano must have finally changed the way this was painted, and included the wider area in production, so that this "hand work" would not have to be continued. But if those exist, it will be easy to see them.
I also wonder if this was documented on the factory drawing? You would think so, if it was originally shown one way and then modified. I looked through my GBofDT but did not see a Spratt's drawing.
It is also a little hard to believe that no one has noticed this before, or at least mentioned it. I saw it right away when I received my model from England years ago. I looked at Jacques Dinky Toys Encyclopedia and he does not mention it either.
Dave, do you have any old photos of the real Spratt's delivery trucks to verify how they actually looked?? Most interesting, and part of what makes collecting Dinky's so much fun...always something new to discuss!!

Terry

Dave--Great closeup picture of the area. And you can clearly see that there is a line under the brushed area, I think showing that the original stripe was like the top one....very narrow.
So the questions likely is, why the change, and did it affect all of the Spratt's vans? And did some come out without the extended paint area, with the narrow stripe? Surely Meccano must have finally changed the way this was painted, and included the wider area in production, so that this "hand work" would not have to be continued. But if those exist, it will be easy to see them.
I also wonder if this was documented on the factory drawing? You would think so, if it was originally shown one way and then modified. I looked through my GBofDT but did not see a Spratt's drawing.
It is also a little hard to believe that no one has noticed this before, or at least mentioned it. I saw it right away when I received my model from England years ago. I looked at Jacques Dinky Toys Encyclopedia and he does not mention it either.
Dave, do you have any old photos of the real Spratt's delivery trucks to verify how they actually looked?? Most interesting, and part of what makes collecting Dinky's so much fun...always something new to discuss!!

Terry

Terry - I sent an e-mail to Bob Burnett this afternoon with a few questions and I am also doing some other digging around. I will get back when I have more info.

Dave

Dave--Thanks for looking further into this...it will be interesting to see what else you uncover on it! By the way, if you contact Bob Burnett, could you please ask if he is still selling any Dinky models any longer, or if he knows of anyone selling high quality items? I bought several Dinky models on Burnett Diecast years ago and they always had some very nice items listed....thanks!
Dave and/or Jan.....I bet that either of you could Photoshop the below photo of a Guy van Spratt's and change the lower area to a red strip the same size as the upper one, with a cream area below it. I firmly believe that is how these models started, then were overpainted the way we have them.

Terry

Dave--Thanks for looking further into this...it will be interesting to see what else you uncover on it! By the way, if you contact Bob Burnett, could you please ask if he is still selling any Dinky models any longer, or if he knows of anyone selling high quality items? I bought several Dinky models on Burnett Diecast years ago and they always had some very nice items listed....thanks!
Dave and/or Jan.....I bet that either of you could Photoshop the below photo of a Guy van Spratt's and change the lower area to a red strip the same size as the upper one, with a cream area below it. I firmly believe that is how these models started, then were overpainted the way we have them.

Terry

Terry, a little journey over the internet makes it clear that every (well visible) Spratt's Van has the same manually applied band. On early black and white pictures on boxes and others (no. 514) the two lines show separately, with a differently toned area underneath. Apparently that area seems to be coloured the same red as the cab/chassis, so the two parallel bands should be darker then, a different shade or colour. Later colour pictures on boxes (no. 917) the band and area underneath show fully integrated in plain red.
I presume the red strips/bands are stamped? A nice, typical Dinky mystery!
By the way, photoshop is nice software, but it takes a lot of 'manual' action and time to do the job you suggest properly ...

Regards, Jan

Jan---Interesting photos of the boxes, clearly showing that the area apparently was never intended to remain the cream color. Also, if you look closely at the Spratt's van on top of the striped box, you can easily see how sloppy that lower red area was done...they strayed slighty into the cream area on the left side.
And no problem with the Photoshop version....it was just a thought that we could see how it would have looked, but all that takes too much time and really isn't necessary.
Terry

Jan---Interesting photos of the boxes, clearly showing that the area apparently was never intended to remain the cream color. Also, if you look closely at the Spratt's van on top of the striped box, you can easily see how sloppy that lower red area was done...they strayed slighty into the cream area on the left side.
And no problem with the Photoshop version....it was just a thought that we could see how it would have looked, but all that takes too much time and really isn't necessary.
Terry

I had a look through previous auctions at Vectis over the last 12 years or so and they have sold about 50 Spratts Vans all with the overpainted red area.

This is what it would like with no overpainting.

Dave

Dave--Thanks for showing us how that would have looked....very interesting. What is your guess on how this came to be, and why would Meccano apparently continue to hand paint that area, instead of incorporating it with the other finishes? I am assuming that they first finished the model, then has workers go back and hand brush these areas, then it would have to dry, then completed and boxed. That would not have been very efficient. Do you think those original stripe areas were sprayed with a mask, stamped, or rolled somehow.
It sure would be nice to have the factory drawing to see if any of this is referenced, or shown as a change.

Terry