David,

I have just talked with a friend who ran a box factory. He confirmed that the staples were made from a reel of wire and he said that this type of staplers is not made any more and have not been for at least 20 years. At the moment he is away at the other end of the country but he promessed to investigate the mater when he comes home a couple of miles from here. I will let you know then.

WoW! What an interesting thread! i can offer nothing to it though as I only have one post-war box for the 29F Observation Coach.

Have come accross this trade box of 6 station porters, unfortunatly missed the bidding so cannot as yet find out the 50,000 number on the reverse, perhaps somebody already knows.

Have contacted the auction house and trying to contact the buyer but will have to be patient.

We are at least now aware of its existance.

David

Have managed to acquire a good few more trade boxes, some are repeats but many are examples of box types that I did not have. The advantage of purchaseing repeats or duplicates is that I can compare and often place them in some sort of dated order depending on the price that is scribbled onto the box. Also sometimes the currancy shown can give obvious clues as to where the original retail outlet was. It is this comparing that highlights any differences in the labeling.

Have noted below a few differences that are appearing on the labels and boxes.

One thing I have noticed that appears not mentioned any where is that certain boxes came in different sizes for the same referenced number model.

The 25 series, you will probably already have noticed that the length of models type 3 and type 4 are different, the type 4 has a bumper that makes the model just that little longer, in fact 6 models type 4 will not fit into and early box that contained type 3 models.

The 29c Double decker, is found with a horizontal format of displaying the models, and 2 different sized vertical displayed models.

There are other differences that are found for the same model reference which are noted on the labels of the models.

The differences are;-

Printed in Great Britian or Printed in England, this distinction relates to early prewar boxes

"Made in England by Meccano Ltd" or "Made in England by Meccano Limited"

"Dinky Toys" found with or without cartouche on some model boxes.

The size of font used for the name and model number, is often found in two sizes on the labels of the same type boxes boxes.

The label size can differ.

The significance of these differences may not be of any interest other than there was more than one print run, but perhaps a more accurate date for a particular printing can be established. Each time I come accros a difference I look at it and wonder if any body else has noticed these differences, perhaps even when they were produced nobody noticed or even bothered to note.

Have photographed the 3 differences of my 'Delivery Van 28 series' post war boxes for comparison.

These boxes should be catagorized as Type 2a, 2b & 2c.

As point of discussion the previous type 2a think is a prewar box, it certainly carries the prewar A..... number but unfortunately with no date. If the box with the shallower lid than the base and has the A...... number proves to be Christmas 1945, prewar models with thick axels then it should be recognised as the 2a type box and the above 2b, 2c & 2d, but because of the prewar reference number beleive it should be the very last prewar types, see picture below taken from an earlier posting.

Looking forward to your commments

David

I would imagine that printing blocks for the one label dinky boxes were assembled in compositor's frames which would be knocked out and recycled after every job.   If a Dinky model was still selling, of course there would be another production batch and the required artwork recomposed as needed.   It would not be exactly the same since no two compositions are ever likely to be a match. Eventually there might be changes of elements and fonts according to some corporate branding requirement.  

For post-war boxes, the conventional understanding is that the small logo labels are earliest , then the slug logos, then the all yellow textured boxes with code numbers , then yellow boxes without code numbers, then finally yellow boxes with dual numbering.

Additionally, all 28 delivery vans are post war since the pre-war delivery vans were numbered either 28/1, 28/2, 28/3 (type 1-3 casting) suceeded by 280 (more type 3 castings).   So I'd say your top 28 box is an early post war type and the bottom two are later post war types, although from different print  and production runs.

Am not sure what you mean by 'slug' logo's, my understanding is that the yellow textured boxes without the 50,000 reference number (type 3) preceeded the the boxes with the reference number (type 4) then followed by yhe dual number boxes type 5, Type 6 boxes being the boxes that carried the renumbered models.

Your comment reinforces my view that there are distinctions within each type of box and can be noted for future reference, the with or without the cartouche for example is already noted.

If boxes are found without the A..... prewar reference ie shallow labels with shallow box lids then clearly this needs to noted as a type 2 box.

David

My most recent purchase may give us a clue to more accuratly date this type of box as it has a label on the lid referring to the importer to America. As of yet not researched this label, but expect some of you will recognise immediatly.

David

The yellow textured boxes without numbers succeeded the boxes with numbers - as far as I know -  but I could be persuaded probably.  The cartouche logo is a slug -  in mediaspeak, any text in a bar is a slug.  

I don't know if there are any prewar boxes without A**** numbers.  At least I don't have any reference of any.

200 - 5th Ave NY was the address of the Meccano importer to the USA from about 1913, initially trading as The Meccano Company of America Inc.  Labels from 1938 start to replace MCoA Inc with H Hudson Dobson, the name of the trader himself. The history is shadowy but his activities eventually wound up as the 60s began. 

Does that therefore date my latest purchase tpo pre 1938?

David

The first mention of H Hudson Dobson is said to be on the cover of the 1938 Meccano Catalogue USA edition.  You'll probably recall that these catalogues have a space to overprint the address of the local dealer.    Your taxi box is the kind we associate with war austerity - although we only assume that austerity was why the boxes were simplified.   And we don't really know how long it took Mr Dobson to use up all his old labels  -  if there was a war on, he might not have wanted to waste any.   I'd speculate the taxi box was towards the last of the prewar production.

Thanks for your good comments, Al. I was going to chime in but I didn't recall the date of when H. Hudson Dobson was first mentioned. All these years later, we still don't know why the Meccano Company of America -- which H.H. Dobson was already running -- was renamed for the man himself. Did it represent Dobson taking more of a financial stake in the distributorship, or was there some other legal reason?

In any case, the address remained the same, and I think you are quite right that the Meccano Company of America labels were simply used until they ran out. I agree with you that they stayed on boxes through the last of the prewar production. Indeed, as anyone seen an "H. Hudson Dobson" sticker on a prewar box? I think items may not have been labeled as such until after the war ...

Dobson was a British emigree ...  a Liverpudlian who arrived in New York as a young man before WW1 and told the US draft board that Meccano was his employer.  Was he some kind of representative on mission for Meccano even on that first crossing?

I had a look through my reference images and did not find any prewar red labels with Dobson... they are all Meccano Co until after the war.

Al --

Terry Hardgrave has researched H. Hudson Dobson pretty extensively and wrote an article on him for the Journal. You'll also find information in this thread (http://dtcawebsite.com/forum-topic/h-hudson-dobson-and-his-pre-war-distr...) and another one (http://dtcawebsite.com/node/7117) here. But yes, we know that Meccano was his employer and that's what brought him to the U.S.

Cheers,

Jonathan

I concur with what is being said about the labels, have checked on some of mine. Have the same label on a 36 series gift set dated 10.40, and as yet not seen a Dobson label on a prewar box.

David

Just followed those links above about HHB, I knew there would be experts out there and there was. Very interesting, have also looked at my 36 series gift box which is dated 10.40, October 1940, and has the label of Meccano  of America and not HHB further confirming with the conclusions of the link researchers.

David

Though these pictures appear elsewhere on this site, here for convenience are the covers of the 1938 and 1939 U.S.A. Dinky catalogues, where we see the Meccano Company of America name being de-emphasized in favor of H. Hudson Dobson's own name, for whatever reason this took place.

Nonetheless we all seem to agree that labels on the boxes themselves did not change until after the war.

Just purchased this trade box 12c Telephone Box, it is a type 4 box numbered 50000.

Not included in any previous list. You can see that someone in the distant past, likely the retailer crossed out the 12c and scribbled the eventual revised number of 750.

David 

This lift off lid box is the only one I have seen with the 50 000 ref. and no slush. There must be other ones.

Other subject, recently a post has been writen about tradeboxes printed with Meccano Limited or Meccano Ltd. Unfortunately, it is not in the Tradeboxes thread and can not be recovered. Could the author please duplicate his post here or let me have the link to this variation.

Kind regards.

Jacques

Not sure what you mean by "slush" but thinkyou refer to the cartouche around the words "Dinky Toys" at the top within the printed border.

To answer your question about other trade boxes printed in the same manor the only ones that I have seen and noticed are the 35 series slide boxes. Have the 35A & 35D pictured below and assume the B & C would be the same, of course this would have to be confirmed.

The second part of your posting requesting the auther of some posting about the labels was mine I think, the picture above post 125, was posted by me showing the variations of the 28 series post war boxes.

David

David,

Thank you, I was looking for a photo with only two tradeboxes. Your post # 125 was very interesting, the type 2c has to be added to the list of tradeboxes. New types appear from time to time and this changes the classification.

Jacques.

Have now been able to confirm the existance of what was I think a type 2a box, the lid is shallower than the base and it carries a slightly different label both in size and of the format. This type of box to me is the earliest type of post war box as it seems to be a continuation of the final prewar trade box, but the price shown on this box is 1/9, which is the price listed for 1948, so more information is needed to be absolute.

The line with the "Made by Meccano Ltd., England" also shows England at the end. Not seen this before but other examples must exist, will keep looking.

There is one more type of early plain cardboard trade box and that is the sliding type used for the 35 series.

That to me confirms that there was at least five types of the plain cardboard "labeled" type box and that is before we reference the different types of cardboard used.

David

A photograph of 35a sliding trade box, an example of the box type 2e

A good few months have passed since I last posted but fortunately still managing to find boxes to addto my collection.
Two boxes that I have noticed but not purchased are from an article in the HRCA Journal and not listed on the 50??? register, in fact the numbers have been used for other models. They are both type 7 boxes. "Greasers" 50034 and "Hotel Porters" 50036

Hi David, let's hope you will be able to add some illustrations soon! Kind regards, Jan

Hello David.

There are other 50 000 references ussed for two different models like 50 028, 50 030, 50 032, 50 051, 50 094 etc...

The ref. 50034 is also for the 27g Motocart.

Could you please make a large scan of the HRCA magazine page and send it by email to dinkycollect@free.fr ?

All the best.

Jacques