I have found why some reference numbers are printed on a red oval on some of the yellow boxes both British and French.
The red ovals can be found on the plain boxes and on the red / yellow boxes. Both these types of boxes are printed in red only, it would have been more expansive to print them in two colours.
examples : 066 - 069 - 80D - 150- -551 - 621 - 626 - 675 etc…
One more Dinky enigma solved.
I have found one exception, the 80 E 155 mm Howitzer and 641 Army 1 ton cargo truck have a plain yellow box printed in red and black and the ovals are black.
An other exception is the 33AN Simca Cargo Bailly for which the standard 33A box has been printed with red ovals with the reference 33AN.
Some yellow boxes, yellow or light yellow are printed with black ovals on the ends and red ovals on the illustrated sides. The reason for this can not be explained yet.
examples of yellow boxes 101 - 103 - 626 - 686 etc…
examples of lighter yellow boxes : 253 - 686 - etc …
There are also some late yellow Supertoys boxes with black ovals on the ends and a red oval on the lid.
You're quite correct Jacques, that must be the solution.
Now for the remaining exceptions to be explained ...
Kind regards, Jan
This table shows what I think are the production periods of the English end flaps boxes. Can you please check that I am not wrong and add to this table ?
To respond to comment # 1.
What strikes me with regard to the oval color with reference number on the boxes is that the British red-yellow dual-numbered boxes that I have, all have a black oval, both on the front and at the end side. This makes them easy to distinguish from the later boxes with red oval on the front and black oval on the end side. Some dual numbered boxes lack an oval with number on the front and have a black oval with dual number on the end side, such as the 343 30n, of which I have 2 different ones. These boxes has pictured a different colour of the model on each long side of the box with corresponding colour spot on the end sides of the box.
Can we conclude that this is the case with all British yellow-red dual numbered boxes? Are there exceptions? I illustrate the differences with some photos of my own examples. This has not yet been mentioned here.
There does not seem to be any logic with these boxes.
What a mess in this factory, no wander they were bankrupt.
Regarding the Visi-pacs, I think it's correct to say the gold ones came first and did not last very long. The yellow ones then gave way to the crystal lift-off lid ones. Many yellow Visi-pacs had the black-and-white road markings that were also featured underneath the model on the crystal boxes; but earlier yellow Visi-Pacs did not have the road markings.
A remarkable misprint of this 955 box:
This is not the only box to be misprinted
the brown colour is missing
the marque DINKY TOYS is up side down
the colours are mis aligned
the colours are mis aligned
Other box errors
Fortunately the Führer died long before this Dinky was issued with a "Fahrer"
The Daimler is not a tank (CHAR) it is an armoured car (AUTO MITRAILLEUSE)
The tank on the picture has six wheels this is one too many.
The "custode" is the rear pannel, it can not be opened, it is the rear window which can be opened.
Do not beleive everything which is written
Do you have any more ? I will be very glad to add them to my list.
Another example of poor registering of the black and red print runs below:
It is striking that first on the blue and white striped boxes standard appeared the mention "trade mark registered Dinky Supertoys" (plural) on the pictured front side of the box and the name "Dinky Supertoy" (singular) on the back side and not on the earliest boxes. I have a 965 Dinky Supertoys box with no Dinky Supertoys trade mark on the front side of the box. There are more boxes where the designation "trade mark registered" is completely missing. Some boxes has an r by the name as registered trade mark like a later 965 Dinky Supertoys box.
Similarly, the blue-white striped Dinky Toys boxes got the designation "trade mark registered Dinky Toys" (plural) on the pictured front side of the box and the name "Dinky Toy" (singular) on the back side. I found only a later blue 555 Fire Engine box with trade mark registered Dinky Toys on the pictured front side of the box. On the yellow end flap boxes the Dinky Toys registered trade mark is always on the non pictured side of the box but there are also without. Of the trade boxes I could only find a trade mark registered Dinky Toys on the blue 551 trade trailer box of 3. Perhaps more examples can be found.
Kind regards, Jan Oldenhuis 2 june 2020
I did not know where else to post this; on another Dinky Toys Facebook site I belong to, a gentleman posted the image below, stating he received it when touring the Binn's Road factory in 1958.....someone there gave it to him as a souvenir. It is the outer box covering for the 961 Blaw Knox Bulldozer, in its original form on one sheet of paper. I had never seen one before, and doubt that many exist, as they would not normally be circulated or sold. Unfortunately the owner decided to use it, while refurbishing his own Blaw Knox box. Many of us commented that was a shame....it should have been kept or sold to someone who would keep it.
Has anyone else even seen anything like this before?
Best regards, Terry
That is extremely interesting, Terry, never seen such a printed sheet for a DST box lid before!
I am convinced that a batch of such printed sheets was the only contribution of the German branch of Coles to the creation of their promo of the 20-Ton Lorry Mounted Crane. The rest, the basic box included, was a Liverpool product.
My 961 box should undergo a refurbishment too, but I would never use a unique piece of box production practice like this. Thanks for sharing this with us! Kind regards, Jan
Jan--After he posted this, many of Dinky collectors chastised him for using it, instead of saving it. It's a shame that he went ahead and used it.
Yes, a shame -- and how amazing that he kept it safe all these years as a momento of a Binns Road visit and then finally decided to cut it up. Good thing that at least he took a photograph of it first.
I assume this is how the covers for some repro boxes are printed as well. I wonder how they were cut out at the factory in an accurate, yet time-saving fashion ...
I always thought the boxes weren't made by Meccano Liverpool themselves. So says Richardson on page 246 of the GB of DT: "The boxes were made by specialist box manufacturers." Or is it that the boxes were made elsewhere, but covered by Meccano Liverpool themselves?
Hi Jan. No, of course Meccano themselves were no manufacturers of boxes, but they planned, organized and ordered boxes, as part of the overall production output. Kind regards, Jan
I have the answer to your questions about this box wraping but I need to do a bit more investiagation on this subject so that my post is comprehensive.
Please give me two or three days, this subject is not at the top of my to do list. I am also doing some research about tampoo printing on DINKY TOYS but that will come later.
An improved picture of this box cover.
This box cover does not have cutting marks because they were not needed. Several of these sheets were cut with a press the tool of which was made of two pieces of ply-wood. A steel blade of the correct shape to be cut was inserted into one of the ply-woods the small heap of sheets was laid on the other piece. I have seen this been done in the seventies but I have not been able to find a picture of one of these inertial presses. They are probably not used any more as today most of the packing is made of plastic.
This very poor picture of the principle of the cutting press may help you to understand. Sorry, I have never been any good at drawing anything.
This very sheet may have been sent by the printer to the Meccano factory for approval. One can only think that several such sheets had been send and this one was one too many.
Meccano did not make it's boxes, they were not competant and there was probably no room at Binns road for a printing and box assembly shop.
According to David Cooke, some of the very rare early boxes were made in Belfast Northen Ireland by Mc Caw, Stevenson & Orr, they were printed with "Printed in Great Britain". All later boxes were "printed in England". This was probably somewhere in Liverpool or around as transport of hundred of thousands of empty boxes must have been extremely expansive.
Jacques. Many thanks for your research and very interesting explanation in this question.
I am attaching an enlarged photo of the assembly line where on the right ladies are busy packing Gift Set boxes in the Meccano factory Liverpool.
Jan Oldenhuis 11 July 2021
Two very rare boxes.
For export to Japan, the cristal boxes were packed in these card boxes.
I have pictures of three of them for both French and British models.
There is an other type of overbox for Japan.
The label on this box has the japanese importer logo KB and the japanese reference number
includes the original Meccano reference 128.
In The Journal no 89 the French 555 Thunderbird box, shown previously by DinkyCollect, with its leader Fuhrer rather than its driver Fahrer is not shown. Interestingly Atlas have reproduced ‘fahrer’ on their copy.