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-965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck (1955-69) (cont...)

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Thanks Bruce,
Really good to learn more about this one, never one of my favourite Dinky's, (that HUGE handle just spoils it for me) but the real thing is actually very handsome isn't it?
Pity Dinky didn't do that lovely shade of "Canary Green" though, that would have looked excellent.
Chris Warr.

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janwerner
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Very nice and high quality picture documentation Bruce, thanks!
And still there is that unsolved initial question of mine ...
Notably it's the same colour there, an ordinary repaint? But why playing with such a nice repaint in a sandpit?
Kind regards, Jan

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Dinkinius
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buzzer999 wrote:
"There are two real world Euclid R15s within 20 miles of where I live, one is Green and the other Yellow as per the Dinky.

The Green one attends shows throughout the summer season, the Yellow one is at a quarry and is still a working vehicle - note the tipping mechanism is more faithfull to the Dinky.

I live on the outskirts of Corby, this of course was a steelmaking town and 40 years ago Euclids were a common site as there were about a dozen belonging to British Steel. This was before I came to the area and I never saw them working here.

Dave"

Greetings Dave

Regarding your above post (which I have edited to save space!) the yellow Euclid depicted has moved and is now being subjected to restoration, although I am uncertain whether the authentic winding mechanism is included as part of the project!!

Bruce

As it was back then in October 2007, and

as it was in September 2010.

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Dinkinius
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Greetings all

In the absence of an introduction into the Dinky Supertoys 965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck in this Thread, I thought it would be nice for collectors to read how the model came into being and some details associated with the actual truck on which the 965 is based, the Euclid company that manufactured it and the many changes that were made to the original 965 die over the years. I hope in the course of this dissertation, an explanation may be reached that satisfies the existence of a strange mid to dark green Euclid that was the original subject of this thread.
The company that became Euclid was founded in 1907 in Wickliffe, Ohio, by George A. Armington as Armington Electric Hoist. It was renamed Euclid Crane & Hoist when the plant was relocated to Euclid, Ohio. Euclid built experimental tractors, one crawler and several wheeled, in the 1920s, and entered the construction equipment industry when it introduced the Automatic Rotary Scraper in 1924. Acceptance of the scrapers led to the creation of the Road Machinery Division in 1926, and the Division was incorporated as Euclid Road Machinery, a subsidiary of the Euclid Armington Corp., on July 11, 1931. Euclid Road Machinery became independent of Euclid Armington on January 1, 1933, and no record is known to exist of Euclid Crane & Hoist after this.
Euclid Road Machinery introduced a variety of allied equipment for crawler tractors, but its biggest breakthrough came with development of the first true off-highway end dump and bottom dump trucks in the mid 1930s. Euclid came to dominate the market with these vehicles to the point that “Euc” came to be used generically for them. Euclid expanded with overseas branches and began production of trucks and scrapers in Motherwell, outside Glasgow, Scotland, in January 1951, with the Euclid R-15 followed by the R-22 in October 1953.

The Euclid factory in Scotland shipped countless R-15 Rear Dump Trucks as well as Euclid scrappers etc. The following are some images showing the despatch of a number of R-15s from the factory to the wharf in Glasgow with their ultimate destination being Angola in south-west Africa.

In the years following the end of the Second World War, Britain pioneered equipment rental, and one such company that later established branches all over the world, was Blackwood Hodge. This company that had been importing agricultural machinery was appointed the agent of the Euclid Road Machinery and set about developing a large facility in Northampton, from which to sell, hire and service Euclid’s large earth-moving equipment, in particular the Euclid R-15 Rear Dump Truck. Blackwood Hodge commenced exporting large quantities of Euclid R-15 rear dump trucks to many countries including Angola, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. In Australia the company established offices that handled the importation of the products from the Scottish plant which later handled the purchases of Euclid products, in particular tghe Euclid R-15 made by Mary Kathleen Uranium Mine in Queensland and the Snowy Mountains Authority in New South Wales.
On the domestic front, many smaller quarry and construction companies could not afford to purchase large equipment such as the R-15, until Blackwood Hodge brought affordability into the equation by setting up a division that hired out earthmoving vehicles, in particular the R-15. The division was called Euclid Wagon Hirers Ltd.

During this time in the early to mid 1950’s, Great Britain was undergoing enormous development of public and private infrastructure and several large companies were at the head of this work, Sir Lindsay Parkinson & Company Ltd and Laing Construction, both companies being involved later in motorway construction, Laing with sections of the M1 and Sir Lindsay Parkinson & Company Ltd with the M6, M4 and M62 Motorways. Laing had purchased a number of new Euclid R-15B-5 Rear Dump Trucks that had been in production in the USA and commenced using these on projects throughout the United Kingdom. Later acquisitions were painted in a distinctive corporate colour of pale yellow.

No doubt one of their Euclid R-15 trucks caught the attention of the executives at Meccano as in early 1953, Blackwood Hodge in Northampton, Northamptonshire, received a visit from senior members of the Design and Development Department at Meccano. After looking at several different styles of truck, the Men from Meccano selected the R-15, and they proceeded to photograph it, and making many measurements, taking back with them some of the Euclid sales brochures.

Some of the pamphlets that were given to the Meccano representatives on their visit to Blackwood Hodge.

Later that year, General Motors, which had been exploring entry into the heavy construction equipment market, acquired Euclid Road Machinery on September 30, 1953, and made it a division of GM on January 1, 1954. In the mid-1950s, GM built a new factory for Euclid at Hudson, Ohio. GM then effectively became the owners of the Euclid production facility in Scotland.

Meanwhile, the design of the “Dinky Toys 965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck” proceeded accordingly at Meccano. The initial drawing was completed on 12 October 1953 and during 1954 at least three changes to the design was made. Until January 1955, the model was intended to be released as a Dinky Toys, but then a decision was made to re-introduce the Supertoys range, so on 19 January, the drawing and thus the die was changed to reflect its change in status. This change can still be seen on early models as the words DINKY SUPERTOYS is on a raised “plinth”, this “plinth” later disappearing as from November 1955 when the chassis was thickened to make it stronger and less prone to bend or break under arduous play. There were several more changes made to the model leading up to its release with the side transfers STONE – ORE – GRAVEL being changed to STONE – ORE – EARTH in an amendment to the drawing on 28 March 1955. It is possible the change resulted in advice being given to Meccano of the existence in the United States at that time of an association called the National Sand and Gravel Association and the National Crushed Stone Association and the original wording may imply an association with both Associations. (These organizations combined in 1984 to form the National Stone, Sand and Gravel Association which is the voice and advocate for the aggregates industry in the United States. NSSGA advances public policies that protect and expand the safe, environmentally responsible use of aggregates that build America’s infrastructure and economy.) As far as can be determined, no prototype Euclid haulers carried these words on the side of their tipping tray – it was just a Meccano “thing”. The words were ultimately deleted during the reign of the 965 Terex.
Seven more changes were made to the drawings and thus the appearance of the final model, three in April 1955, one in August and three in September.

The above is a copy of the actual drawing for the Euclid Rear Dump Truck after it had been changed to “Terex”. The changes can still be seen on the original which show up as white background.
When it came to deciding on the colour of the model, and although Euclid painted their vehicles in a dark shade of green that later became known within the industry in the UK as “Parkinson Green” which was also the corporate colours for Sir Lindsay Parkinson & Company Ltd that utilised Euclid machinery extensively, Meccano selected pale yellow as used by the later Laing Constructions Euclids. It was ironic that Sir Lindsay Parkinson & Company Ltd using their “Parkinson Green” earth-moving equipment was awarded the contract to build large sections of the M62 Motorway that brought high-speed road travel to Liverpool which terminated less than a mile from the Meccano factory that had selected the corporate colours of a competing company for their model of the Euclid R-15!
Shortly before the release of the 965 Euclid, representatives from Meccano travelled to Northampton. On their arrival, the Blackwood Hodge staff and engineers were ushered into one of the large product servicing buildings where every worker was presented with a pre-release boxed model inside of which was a special Blackwood Hodge lapel badge. As far as it is known, the model may not have had any distinguishing features – the normal yellow with transfers. On the other hand it is quite possible that as these were a special gift to Blackwood Hodge and its employees that they were painted in the Blackwood Hodge “Parkinson Green” colour scheme, although no examples of this model in its box have been uncovered in the intervening years. I would rather like to believe that they were specially prepared Euclid models, painted in the Euclid dark green, or Parkinson Green, or whatever name the green was officially given. Hopefully Mr Mitchell or his family can provide us with the answer! This may explain the green 965 that was the original subject for this thread submitted by Jan, or that model was a “one-off” specifically made for an executive of Parkinson – who knows?!

Then came the anticipated launch of this fine model, with the announcement in the October 1955 issue of The Meccano Magazine and dealers receiving their advance orders for this long-anticipated model.
Mr Toyman made a fine write-up of the Euclid in that issue which in part, was also an excellent advertisement for the real-life vehicle! He even incorporated two dioramas using other Dinky Models to display the sort of work the real truck did, although at that time, there were no mechanical shovels in the Dinky range so Mr Toyman had to compromise with a Coles Mobile Crane with a home-made bucket. In retrospect, I wonder why he did not use the Elevator Load, a model that had been released in 1954.

Not long after the release of the model, a change was made to the transfer of the Euclid logo on each side of the tipping tray, from monochrome to having red on either side as shown below. The adjustment was made to Drawing 13970 on 14 October 1955, the same month that the model was released. As Meccano had already manufactured a huge supply of the original casting with the first Euclid logo, this version is still very common.

Then on 3 November 1955, barely a month of the toy being in the shops, a further quite dramatic change was made to the chassis. The pads on which the tipping body rest were each connected and the base had more Mazak added, removing the evidence of DINKY SUPERTOYS on a raised “plinth” together with two raised sections on either side of the tipping body “lifter” opening. All these changes effectively strengthened the chassis, as no doubt early play tests revealed that the model could be easily bent if played excessively hard.

Meccano were justifiably proud of their Euclid R-15 model, judging on the number of times the model featured in sales leaflets. It must have been an excellent income provider as it remained in production as a Euclid until early 1969, a little over thirteen years. The model received window glazing in late 1960 with this feature being added to the drawings on 13 January 1960. On 23 May 1963 a further major change to the appearance of the R-15 was noted on the plans when the front wheels were reversed to match the rear wheels with the rounded side on the inside. Actually, with this change, the Euclid no longer matched the real vehicle!
Over the years other changes were made to the model. Often the STONE – ORE – EARTH transfers were omitted from the tray, and other casting changes were made to the model, such as the incorporation of two lugs at the rear of the ratchet noted on the plans dated 26 January 1967.

There were also a number of changes to the model’s packaging; four changes with the blue striped lidded box and then a half pictorial lidded box, (which for the first and only time carried a description and performance of the real model), followed by the dropping of the trade mark Supertoys on the next end-flap box style, having a full picture on two sides with the title “Dinky Toys” although no changes were made to the casting on the chassis to show the model was now just a Dinky Toys. Finally, on 3 January 1969, the drawing plans were amended when the name of the model was changed to Terex. But this is another story!

The first type of box when the model was launched in October 1955, remained in production until late October 1955. Production actually started in September 1955 to provide sufficient stock for sale by Meccano Agents throughout the United Kingdom.

The 2nd box style was introduced in October 1955 and remained in production until at least September 1957.

The 3rd box style came into effect in December 1957, although it is possible it was introduced earlier, October or November 1957

The above box is not an actual change to the style of box, but rather the incorporation of a green end spot. This has been discussed elsewhere in the 965 Euclid Thread.
Just exactly when the following boxes were introduced is not known in any accuracy, but when details come to hand, this Post will be amended accordingly.

The last model with red hubs (sometimes military green) can be found on both the Euclid and Terex models. This occurred when insufficient yellow hubs had been painted but there a surplus of red hubs intended for the 437 Muir-Hill 2WL Loader or 959 Foden Dump Truck with Bulldozer and 666 Missile Erector Vehicle with Corporal Missile with the military green hubs that were used instead to complete a designated completion number. These variations are more frequent during the final years of production, and primarily in the last two types of boxes.

All of the lidded boxes had one internal packing piece with a hole through which the winding handle passed through. For the end flap boxes, the internal “packing piece” consisted of a small light-weight cardboard, folded to fit inside the tray of the truck. The cardboard used was similar in strength to that used at times for packaging tyres.

Although most publications quote 1955 to 1969 as its production period, there were quite a few months when Meccano Agents could not order the 965 as stock was not available. The months are November 1960, February 1961, May 1961 and September 1961. No reasons are known why the Euclid was unavailable, unless there had been a real problem with the die and it took some time to rectify it. I do not have order forms for the months in-between, so it is possible the model was also unavailable during those months.

Like many models that came out of the Meccano factory, some just simply do not follow what the drafting office had indicated on their drawings. Take for instance the above. The model has no transfers on the cargo tray. The front wheels have not been reversed as stated in Drawing 13970, with this change dated 23 May 1963. That is fair enough, maybe the ladies on the factory floor momentarily forgot both the transfers and to reverse the front hubs. But then the model has the two raised pads at the rear of the rack that were noted on Drawing 13970 dated 26 January 1967. Another unusual item was the lack of cross-hatching on the interior of the roof, when models at this time had cross-hatching. To cap it off, the model was packaged in the last lidded type box which could have been swapped over the years.
Although many collectors do not like the 965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck due to the size of the winding handle, I have never had a problem with it, right from when I was given mine for Christmas 1959. I was so proud of it that it spent most of its time in its box only being brought out and looked at with limited play indoors, rather than in my usual outdoor tarred road system. It was always a case of ignoring the many winding handles which were also on the 25m, 25v and 25x, as I always looked at them as toys.

After 54 years, here is my Euclid, showing much wear and tear, the damage caused by my well-meaning mother who brought out my toys for some little urchins to play with after I had left home. At least I now have eleven more in near mint condition to admire!

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dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

What an excellent article, so well documented. Congratulations.

All I can add is that some Euclids were exported to Belgium without the tipping body. I saw those bodies been build when in the early 70s I visited La Brugeoise et Nivelle on business. La Brugeoise is a very large metal working compagny making containers, armoured vehicles, trains, trams and the like.

Jacques.

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Brilliant work, thanks Bruce!
Chris Warr.

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janwerner
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DTCA MemberNetherlands

In fact there's hardly anything to add to Bruce's input into this thread, but I found some nice pictures which you may like.

The tyres difference illustrated.

Small scale Lesney brothers.

The one I like best.

Kind regards, Jan

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dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

For the amateurs of copies, Benbros made this one.

starni999
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DTCA MemberUK

Ok if other makers are allowed!
Here's the absolute Holy Grail of Euclids...

Lesney's large scale prototype, before they went Matchbox size.
As far as I know there is only one.(Not holding my breath then... :laugh: )

Chris Warr.

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dinkycollect
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DTCA MemberFrance

Chris,

Why not accept other makes than Dinky Toys as long as they are related to the Dinky which is the case here.

I have been investigating further on Euclid and Terex. Both have been sold or merged several times and this can be added to Bruce's excellent article.

For Euclid.

When General Motors acquired Euclid for $20 million in 1953, Euclid was a $33 million business with 1,600 employees turning out 170 trucks per month (over half U.S.A.’s off-highway dump trucks}. As a GM division, Euclid continued to develop larger types of equipment. GM was forced to dispose of its Euclid plant as the result of an antitrust suit, under the Clayton Act, against GM. The suit charged GM of being a dominant business and stifling competition in the off-road hauler and earthmoving market. GM fought the suit for 8 years but surrendered in 1968. GM sold the Euclid Division to White Motor Corporation in 1968, but retained production of crawlers, front-end loaders and scrapers under the Earth Moving Equipment Division, forming the Terex brand.

Under the sale agreement with White Motor Corporation, GM was not allowed to produce trucks in competition with White Motor Corporation for 4 years (1968-1972). They could produce off-road haul trucks in this period - but could not sell them in the U.S. GM equipment dealers in the U.S. were offered a franchise deal from White Motor Corporation, to sell the White/Euclid line of trucks, during those 4 years. The international Euclid dealerships were still owned by GM - thus forcing White Motor Corporation to commence the formation of all new international dealerships. Reorganized as Euclid, Inc., the firm remained profitable under White but suffered from the financial difficulties of its parent company in the 1970s. In 1977, White Motor Corp. sold Euclid, Inc. to Daimler-Benz of West Germany.

GM continued to produce haul trucks in the 1968-1972 period, that it had developed during its ownership of Euclid - from plants in Canada and Scotland, that it had been allowed to keep. These were sold as Terex, but were essentially the same as the Euclid line. The Terex Division was sold to IBH Holding AG of West Germany on January 1, 1981. The transaction included Terex properties in Brazil and Scotland.

IBH-Holding was a German construction group based in Mainz, Germany, who, after a period of very high growth rates, went bankrupt on November 4, 1983. The company was founded by Horst-Dieter Esch. By purchasing a series of medium-sized construction equipment manufacturers beginning early 1970s, in a short time he created the IBH group. The acquired companies were mostly in distressed situations, and the purchase prices were correspondingly low. Towards the end, he employed more than 10,000 employees in the group, and it had achieved a turnover of over 2.0 billion DM. As a financial partner for its expansive activity, he joined up with General Motors, the Saudi Sheikh Saleh A. Kamel, and the banking house Schroder, Münchmeyer, Hengst & Co. (SMH) as the operative bank. A fundamental reorganization and rapid integration of the possible synergistic effects were rarely realized. The company developed a rapidly growing financial need, which could finally no longer be covered. The indebtedness amounted to about one billion DM when the company collapsed. As a result, the SMH ran bank into trouble. It was rescued by a joint action of the German banking industry, followed by a majority takeover by British bank Lloyds. Horst-Dieter Esch was convicted in 1984 by the Koblenz court for fraud and sentenced to six and a half years imprisonment and a 90,000 DM fine.

The IBH-Group consisted of the following firms:

• Zettelmeyer, taken over by Volvo
• Hanomag, taken over by Komatsu
• HAMM, taken over by Wirtgen Group
• HELA Hermann Lanz
• Hymac taken over by ?
• Maco-Meudon in 1993 becomes SULLAIR EUROPE SA
• WIBAU TEREX, reverted to a General Motors subsidiary until sold again
• Duomat, taken over by Ammann
• Pingon
• Dureppe

Today, Terex Corp. is a large independant company which has merged with Demag Gmbh. The five divisions are : Aerial Work Platforms, Construction, Cranes, Material Handling & Port Solutions and Materials Processing.
See the Terex products line at :

http://www.terex.com/fr/products-services/equipment/index.htm

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Dinkinius
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Jacques

Thank you for the added information. I ended my treatise of the Dinky Supertoys 965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck to coincide with the launch of the Dinky Toys 965 Terex Rear Dump Truck.

However, the following is what became of Euclid, its brand-name and the trucks and other equipment it pioneered and manufactured. Today, the name EUCLID no longer exists as this potted epilogue shows:

White sold Euclid, Inc. to Daimler Benz AG of Stuttgart, Germany in August, 1977, and in January 1984, Daimler-Benz sold Euclid to one of Euclid’s former competitors, Clark Equipment Company and it became part of the Clark Michigan Company, as Clark’s construction machinery division was then called. The following April 1978, Clark formed a 50/50 joint venture with Sweden’s Volvo AB, now known as Volvo Construction Equipment to manufacture Volvo, Michigan and Euclid construction equipment under the name of VME Group NV. VME underwent several rather confusing divisions between its American and European operations, culminating in 1991 in the creation of a VME North America division to handle only the Euclid lines.

In December 1993, VME North America entered into a joint venture of its own with Japan’s Hitachi Construction Machinery Co. Ltd., called Euclid-Hitachi Heavy Equipment. Hitachi Construction Machinery Co. Ltd., a manufacturer of hydraulic construction machinery like excavators and cranes, gradually increased its share of the joint venture until it owned 100% of the venture in 2000. Hitachi had originally obtained Euclid to fill the gap which existed in their ability to offer a complete mining package, as mining excavators and dump trucks are usually needed in combination.

Euclid-Hitachi became Hitachi Construction Truck Manufacturing on January 1, 2004, and the famous Euclid green was replaced with Hitachi orange. The Euclid name was phased out by the end of the 2004 calendar year, ending 80 years of the Euclid name on construction machinery.

Bruce (150)

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dinkycollect
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Bruce,

Thank you for the end of this long and complicated story. Did you count the number of owners of Euclid ?

Jacques.

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Dinkinius
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Jacques

Thank you. No, I did not count the number of Euclid owners, but I will if you think it is entirely necessary! :angry:

Bruce
(150)

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fodenway
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I have followed this thread with interest. I recently acquired a TEREX example, brightly repainted by an enthusiastic child (but structurally sound), for restoration at a low price. At the same time, I decided to give my very-playworn childhood (circa 1958) Euclid a makeover. Upon stripping them down, I was surprised to find many more casting differences than have already been noted. I assume that most of these changes were introduced throughout the life of the model - I only have an early and a late version to compare.
These are my observations:-
CAB - TEREX name added, changes to the cowling behind the headlamps.
TIPPER BODY - three ribs added under the cab protector, larger diameter pivot holes.
CHASSIS (underside) - TEREX name added, lettering moved slightly outboard to allow bracing strips along ram slot.
(topside) - extra bracing between circular pads and in winder location. Stop bar added at rear end of ram slot.
(side view) - profile above front axle position changed, no circular bosses on rear axle holes, tipper pivot hole larger, shallower recess in lower cab step.
TIPPER RAM AND WINDER - shorter ram "wedge" section with 45-degree undercut at end, winder has shorter geared section, appears to be made of rustless alloy rather than steel.
WHEELS AND TYRES - convex side of wheel is more domed with shorter outer collar, less well defined rim nut detail. Tyres are the last rubber "tractor" style, with much deeper tread than those on Muir-Hill 2WL loader, Foden Dumptruck, middle-period Euclids.
COLOUR - very slightly darker shade of yellow. (possibly due to a different (lead-free?) paint formulation - the paint on the Terex took longer to remove in the same stripping session).
(I have tried without success to upload detailed photos)
Kevin.

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Dinkinius
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Hi Kevin

Many thanks for your post.

Most of the differences you have listed are included in the 965 Terex Rear Dump Truck Thread. I did not list the three rib additions to the underside of the over-cab projection of the tipper back, as I do not have an exact date when these were incorporated. I should have included these additions with an approximate date. I should have also included the size of the rear tipping wagon pin, as it was increased in size. Although the pin, Job 12938 was included in the drawing, it was in fact increased in size at a date later than 1955.

CAB - TEREX name added, changes to the cowling behind the headlamps. (MENTIONED IN THE TEREX THREAD)
TIPPER BODY - three ribs added under the cab protector, larger diameter pivot holes. (SEE MY COMMENTS ABOVE. IT APPEARS THAT THIS ADDITION WAS INTRODUCED AFTER DECEMBER 1960, AS THAT IS THE LATEST DATE I HAVE FOUND FROM THE QUALITY INSPECTION STAMPS ON THE INSIDE OF THE BOX LID. THE MODEL IN THIS BOX DOES NOT CONTAIN THE THREE REINFORCING RIBS UNDER THE CAB OVER-HANG. THE CHANGE HAD BEEN MADE BY THE TIME THE YELLOW HALF PICTORIAL LIDDED BOX HAD BEEN INTRODUCED, THE YEAR OF WHICH ESCAPES ME FOR THE PRESENT BUT BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN CIRCA 1963.)
CHASSIS (underside) - TEREX name added, lettering moved slightly outboard to allow bracing strips along ram slot. (SEE THE TEREX THREAD)
(topside) - extra bracing between circular pads and in winder location. Stop bar added at rear end of ram slot. (THE STOPS ARE MENTIONED IN THE EUCLID THREAD)
(side view) - profile above front axle position changed, no circular bosses on rear axle holes, tipper pivot hole larger, shallower recess in lower cab step. (I AM UNCERTAIN WHAT IS EXACTLY MEANT, SO I LOOK FORWARD TO ANY PICTURES YOU CAN POST.)
TIPPER RAM AND WINDER - shorter ram "wedge" section with 45-degree undercut at end, winder has shorter geared section, appears to be made of rustless alloy rather than steel. (THE RACK WAS MADE OF MAZAK FOR ALL VERSIONS OF THE 965. IT MAY APPEAR SHORTER DUE TO THE PROVISION OF TWO END LUGS THAT PREVENT IT FROM BEING EXTENDED TO ITS FULL LENGTH. A PICTURE OF THE LUGS IS INCLUDED IN THIS THREAD.)
WHEELS AND TYRES - convex side of wheel is more domed with shorter outer collar, less well defined rim nut detail. Tyres are the last rubber "tractor" style, with much deeper tread than those on Muir-Hill 2WL loader, Foden Dumptruck, middle-period Euclids. (THE CHANGES WERE DUE TO THE WEAR OF THE ORIGINAL DIE FOR THE WHEELS AND IS NOT CONSIDERED AN ACTUAL DESIGN CHANGE. THE MODELS YOU QUOTED ALSO USED THE SAME WHEEL AS THE 965. THERE WERE AT LEAST THREE DIFFERENT STYLES OF TYRES. THE FIRST BEING BLOCK TREAD, THE SECOND A NARROW TREADED TRACTOR TYPE, AND THE FINAL A WIDER TRACTOR TYPE USED ON BOTH THE LAST ISSUES OF THE EUCLID, AND ALL ISSUES OF THE TEREX.)
COLOUR - very slightly darker shade of yellow. (possibly due to a different (lead-free?) paint formulation - the paint on the Terex took longer to remove in the same stripping session).
(I have tried without success to upload detailed photos) (THE DIFFERENCE IN THE PAINT COLOUR SPECTRUM HAS BEEN MENTIONED FREQUENTLY THROUGHOUT THE EUCLID THREAD AND I ALSO INCLUDED A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE FIRST EUCLID AND THE FINAL TEREX TOGETHER THAT SHOWS THE DIFFERENCE. BUT IF YOU CAN ALSO INCLUDE PICTURES OF YOUR MODELS, IT MAY HELP SHOW THIS CHANGE. LEAD-FREE PAINT WAS INTRODUCED BY MECCANO IN THE MID 1950S, AS EVIDENCED BY THE NUMEROUS TIMES THE STICKER "LF" (LEAD FREE) IS INCLUDED ON THE END OF MOST SUPERTOYS BOXES WHICH APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN RELAXED. FROM BOXES I HAVE SEEN THIS STICKER WAS INTRODUCED AS EARLY AS FEBRUARY 1956 AND CEASED BEING ADDED BY ABOUT APRIL 1957. MEMBERS MAY BE ABLE TO CORRECT THIS ASSUMPTION. THEREFORE THE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT SHADE OF YELLOW COULD BE ATTRIBUTED TO A DIFFERENT PAINT SUPPLIER.)

Thank you again Kevin for your valuable input into this great little model, even though according to the latest issue of THE JOURNAL at least one member has listed it as his sixth least desirable Dinky Toys! For me, it is ranked up near the top of the most desirable Dinky Toys!

Kind regards

Bruce (150)

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Greetings all!

The pictures immediately below are the three reinforcing ribs under the over-cab tipping body mentioned by Kevin above. I had accidentally omitted this change to the Euclid, although I still do not have a date, and no drawing as far as I am aware exists of the tipping body which would show this change to the casting. On the left, the original casting and the right with the added ribs.

Above is the original tipper body casting over the cab and to the right, the addition of the three reinforcing ribs.

Also mentioned in the recent posts has been the increase in the diameter of the pin on which the tipping body is supported and lifted, with the original on the left and the amendment on the right.

With the existence of the two added lugs stopping the winding pinion from being extended too far to the rear, the change to the size of the pin occurred at least by 26 January 1967. A further check of my models seems to indicate that the enlarged pin occurred during the Terex era, so I will have to add this to my Terex thread!

Bruce (150)

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While scrolling through the automatic responses received from the old DTCA Forum and apparently missed by me and others at the time, but the above blank Post from Jacques, according to the response, contained a link to an image on the old DTCA website

kh http://www.dtcawebsite.org/images/fbfiles/images/image3.JPG

Needless to say, please don't bother trying to open the link as the old website is dead and buried.

There - that completes one empty Post!

Bruce   (150)

10 February 2016

#763

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Many old forum images that were uploaded to the old website but have since become unlinked may still exist in a backup folder that I made as a precaution.   The link path (URL) to the folder will be http://dtcawebsite.com/sites/default/files/old-forum-images/x where x is replaced with the name of the missing image.   In this case for image3.JPG, I find this picture:

 

So, to add an image, click on the Image icon from the text editor window (second icon, second row) and enter the URL in the top bit, then click OK.

 

 

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Al

Many thanks for locating the above image, although it is rather strange and only Jacques would know what happened, but originally, his Post was empty and several fellows wrote subsequent posts enquiring what it was all about. What I had posted was a result of the automatic message sent by ask@dtcawebsite.org of what Jacques had originally posted.

The interesting thing about the image is that it has nothing to do with the 965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck!

But thanks again for your efforts.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

11 February 2016

#765

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I can't tell you why the image is of the underbelly of an auto union but that's the only image called image3.jpg in the folder  - and it has some french on it.  Maybe Jacques was uploading a test image

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Possibly Jacques posted an image and then went back and deleted it as the only Post we all saw had no text or image. However, it is possible the deletion still left a footprint. Still many thanks for having a go which did turn up that surprising image!

Al - you are an incredible person, and I have stated as such in my last Post in the 196 Holden Special Sedan topic.  I and everyone else cannot thank you enough for your splendid efforts on our behalf.

Kind regards

Bruce   (150)

11 February 2016

#768

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Why the completely empty post Jacques?

I would have thought that after 8 hours you would have realised something was wrong and put it right.

Dave

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buzzer999 wrote:
"Why the completely empty post Jacques?

I would have thought that after 8 hours you would have realised something was wrong and put it right.

Dave"

It's OK Dave it's a picture of all my green hubbed Euclids together. :laugh:

CW

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Glad somebody understands whats going on!!!!

Dave

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buzzer999 wrote:
"Glad somebody understands whats going on!!!!

Dave"

Dave

Actually, when I opened Jacques' post, I thought something was no quite right, and when no explanation came, I had another closer look. It was then I discovered that it was a picture of a group of Euclid R-15s painted white in a blizzard!

With tongue in cheek, cheers

Bruce (150)
:dry: :laugh: :woohoo:

(I just could not resist making this comment!!

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Bruce,

you are absolutely right about my picture of a group of Euclids in Antartica, unfortunately, the weather was worse than expected and the picture did not come out very well.

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For anyone interested in seeing the comparison photographs I took of my Euclid and Terex, they have been posted for me on the Terex thread of the Dinky Toys forum on PLANET DIECAST. I had tried to post them on here, without success.
Kevin.

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These are Kevin's interesting pictures from Planet diecast.

Thank you Kevin, these show many unlisted variations.

Jacques.

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Kevin and Jacques

A very, very interesting comparison between the Euclid and Terex versions. I would, however, like to see a similar comparison between the LAST Euclid and the Terex, as the Euclid casting in Kevin's photographs is that of a FIRST casting made prior to at least 3 November 1955, as the early casting shows up in several of Kevin's photographs, most of the differences I included in my various posts. The first photograph does show a graphic difference but I am wondering about the focal length of Kevin's camera as the different height for both exhausts is very noticeable, and the Terex grille etc appears smaller. The second photograph shows the Terex (on the right) more in focus than the Euclid, and this would depend on exactly how the camera was held, as both should be in focus.

But it is the 4th, 6th and 8th photographs that determines the model Euclid used in the comparison photographs. The 8th photograph shows the larger hole for the larger pin that I wrote of and posted in both threads which at first I thought occurred in the last issues of the Euclid but corrected this in one of my last posts.

I had downloaded into my computer all the discussions in TalkModelToys concerning the 965 but have not done so with Planet Diecast which I must do now! In fact www.planetdiecast.com has never been or hardly ever mentioned throughout this Forum and I have been meaning to write of this but good on Kevin for having done so now. Check it out as that website is very, very interesting!

I will copy Kevin's post and this reply and post it in the Terex Thread as it concerns both models.

Regards

Bruce (150)

#515

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